Question:Why do you recommend 4-6reps per set. I thought that 4-6 reps per set were for
weightlifters and others who want to build explosive power and that 12-20 reps
per set were for athletes attempting to improve muscular endurance.
Answer:
It's the off-season (for me), and some people recommend getting in the
gym and pushing a few weights and then following up with weight training
all year.
Is there any point for triathletes, bearing in mind:
My particular interest is ironman at amateur level (limited training
time)
Have I missed something?
What's your view?
Russell, Thats a new one to me too. I was always under the impression that
15-20 reps is the way to go for endurance athletes to build strength and
endurance using a lighter weight. Also a circuit with little rest between
reps and sets.
Depending on how you train, you don't need to put on mass to strengthen
the muscles. Most cycling coaches would recommend using lower weights
with higher reps. What's 'low" and "high" needs to be worked out by each
individual.
How do you determine the "level they need to be." If through weight
training you can stress muscles/ muscle groups more than by just
cycling, running or swimming you might be able to increase the strength
of the quads, for example, by, lets say 10%. That 10% increase in
strength should translate into more speed and less fatigue on the bike.
Another factor to be considered is that by improving your overall
strength (muscle groups not necessarily related to your specific sport)
you improve you chances of not being injuried. For example, by working
on neck and back muscles you may protect yourself for injury, or lessen
the seriousness of injuries occuring, should you crash while on the
bike.
Also, on this same subject, weight training if done properly, can
improve flexibility thereby helping to lessen chances of injury.
A break from sport specific exercise can improve your mental state --
even things you enjoy doing can get boring and create a "stale" psyche;
this can negatively impact your performance in your sport of choice. By
throwing in different training techniques you can liven things up a bit.
Then don't train for explosive power. There's different techniques used
to develop maximum strength, power, and muscular endurance.
It has been scientifically demonstrated that "strength" (maximal
muscular force developed with 1 rep) is best trained with low reps/high
weight. Hypertrophy results from lower weight/higher reps (8-12). Take a
look at Van Lierde's legs. Frigging huge! Having the muscle will enable
you to take the pounding of elite training. Of course, you wouldn't want
to start a training plan with 4-6 reps with heavy weight. Progress and
periodize accordingly.
That is what I think Andre is trying to say.....but there is a time in the
periodized workout year for low reps and high weight......Strength training is
a valuable tool for any athlete in any sport....but the proper periodized
program is a necessity, and yes it fluctuated from low intensity to high
intensity depending on the time of the year just like our other workouts should
This is a topic that is debated often in many circles (body building,
power lifting, endurance sports, weight loss, etc.). After a fair
amount of reading it now seems reasonable to me that to train a muscle
to be strong, you lift as much weight as possible, which allows for
fewer reps. It also seems that this will not necessarily make the
muscle large. Muscle growth, as Hamish suggests, will occur more as the
reps are increased (8-12) and worked to exhaustion. Endurance might be
increased by higher reps (15-20) but, IMHO, that will do little to
influence the type of endurance needed for a 10+ hour event (or even a 2
hour event).
I also feel that increasing muscle strength is the way to go for a
triathlete, particularly, but not limited to, the off-season. I, for
one, don't have the muscle strength to get and keep my heartrate up,
especially on the bike. This, I feel, means I have additional aerobic
capacity that I can't use. Given that you'd think I'd advocate high
weight, low reps, which I do, but not for me. "What," you say? Due to
my physiology (very tall, very thin, petite joints which are
particularly unstable) I can't tolerate high weight very well so I find
myself in the 10-15 rep range.
So let's all pump some iron this winter, and I want to hear lots of
grunting!
With the amount of endurance training that triathletes do, most will not have to
worry about getting "friggin huge". It is different for each individual of course, but
a triathlete burns so much that increasing muscle mass significantly, does not easily
happen. I am not a professional in the field of fitness, but I have lifted weights
since I was 12 years old. When I began triathlon this year, I weighed 236lbs. (6'2").
In five months of training, for triathlon, I have dropped to 215lbs. I lost some of my
max strength, but not a significant amount. I believe that my base strength from
lifting weights has greatly helped me for triathlon. One thing though, you have to make
sure you get enough stretching in. With weight training, your muscles will tighten up
some. Without proper stretching, you risk pulling a muscle, especially doing speed
work. I have lowered the amount of time I spend at the gym, since I began training for
triathlon. But most, in the sport of triathlon, would think I was crazy with what I
still do in regards to weight and number of exercises. So, the bottom line is, you do
not have to worry about getting huge all of a sudden. It does not happen over night,
but is a gradual process that can be regulated in whatever way you like. Weight
training, done properly, can enhance your strength and improve your triathlon. Not a
professional opinion, but a personal one based on my own experience.
Will not happen if you maintain a high level of aerobic work. Also you can
build vast amounts of strength without building size. Train with very low
reps at very high weights. 4-6 reps at most. The 8-12 rep range is where you
get the muscle breakdown that leads to muscular hypertrophy.
I beg to differ. Certainly cyclists have benefitted from greater levels of
weight training especially in the mid section.
The gains for weight training do not need to be targetted towards explosive
strength.
Where I feel weight training helps the endurance athlete is not in a direct
benefit to performance (as the sport sci literature will tell you) but helps
develop a stronger body which is able to handle higher loads in training. It
has benn suggested that adaptation to weight training is anabolic and this
effect will enhance recovery. From here the elite triathlete can tolerate
the huge volume of training needed and the amateur can get the good mix of
intensity work they need to do to make up for less time that can be spent on
training.
Here in Christchurch NZ, most of the top triathletes do some form of weight
training either in circuit fashion or in the weights room.
I think that I mentioned that strength is developed in the 2-6 rep range and
hypertrophy is gained in the 8-12 rep range.
I think I also mentioned that if weights is combined with a lot of aerobic
training that you will not see a lot of hypertrophy. This is why
bodybuilders are rarely seen doing any form of aerobic exercise.
4-6 reps with" heavy weight" is ideal reps for a bodybuilder and definetly
will cause hypertrophy of muscle. I guess if you limit the amount of time you
train that way you would not add alot of muscle. A natural bodybuilder will
train this way year round and eat 200 to 300 grams of protein or more a day and
be lucky to put on a few pounds of muscle.
Everybody should do some sort of weight training.
My routine for the curious:
warning - I suck at triathlons
Sunday- Long run
Monday- Easy run
Hamstrings- Leg curls, Stiff leg deadlifts and lep press-4 sets 10,10,8,6 reps
Shoulders- Shoulder press,upright row,prone flys and shrugs 3
sets 12,10,8 calves donkey raises 4 sets 15 reps Tuesday-moderate bike
Wednesday-Chest-Bench,dips and flys 4 sets 10,10,6,6 Moderate Run
Thursday-moderate bike Quads-Leg extensions, squats and hack squats 4 sets
10,10,6,6 ( always fun to bike after doing squats) Calves- standing and seated
4 sets 15 reps
Friday- running speed intervals
Biceps- straight bar curls, dumbbell curls and cable curls 3 sets 10,10,8
Triceps- Pushdowns, close grip bench and overhead extentions 3 sets 10,10,8
Forearms- wrist curls 3 sets 15 reps Saturday- long bike and surfing if I'm lucky
also do abs on weight days.
I recommend it -- and I have the same level of interest in IM.
Upper-body work definitely helped my with my swimming, not the speed
part (I still suck at that) but the recovery part. I come out of the
water much better simply because I'm stronger.
Leg-work helped my cycling and also helped to improve my muscle-balance
which in-turn has helped to reduce my level of injury with running. The
problem with specific training is that your strength tends to become
unbalanced and that can lead to injuries -- in my case patello-femoral
injury.
Abdominal work helps everywhere, but especially in running, as my
core-strength is much better now.
You don't need to worry about looking like Arnie -- that's just not
going to happen. You don't pack on muscle that easily -- it takes
bodybuilders years and years of intense work to get their results.
Go to a gym where they have someone that can guide you on the equipment
and devise a plan that suits your requirements i.e. devise a weight plan
that is sport specific. Two to three 1/2-hr sessions a week would
probably be enough to get you started.
I have a good idea why. You are training like a bodybuilder. You are
following a split programme. Athletes use a full body programme that uses a
mix of multi - joint total body exercises mixed in with a few to develop
weak areas.
You use 6-10 reps which is optimal body building rep range.
You use several exercises per body part which will incur great levels of
muscular damage and with recovery greater increases in muscular size.
You are doing bugger all that is specific to Triathlon. What you train for
is what you get. Sounds like you are training for the Mr Ironman not the
Hawaii Ironman:-)
There was so much info in this thread, I couldnt include all
the refs. Sorry! But I had a couple of questions specific to
strength training and cycling. I cant seem to keep a decent
pace on the flats. I do ok on hills and can jump hard, so it
doesnt seem to be a matter of lacking strength. Still, I'd
like to get faster on the flats. Maybe its technique, but if
weights would help, and its a matter of reps and amount lifted
I'd really like to hear any suggestions.
For instance I do squats with 100lbs barbells twice a week,
two sets, 15-20 reps. I know people squat much more, but is there
any rule of thumb relating the amount squatted to the body mass.
What about climbing and sprinting? There seem to be different
components involved , whether one rides in or out of the saddle.
There should be specific weight training I guess.
Any thoughts... comments...
Regards
varun
This may have more to do with the training you do on the bike than the
amount and type of weight training you do.
Do you use intervals on the flat?
Weights per se will not directly transfer to on the bike performance. They
do help you carry out a higher load of specific training.
The weight training specific to bike riding is done on the bike using large
gears into headwinds and up hills.
I recommend the video, "Strength Training with Mark Allen and Paula Newby
Fraser" as directed by Diane Buchta. This method has been used by Mark and he
also outlines this in last years copies of Outside magazine. You have to look
around for the video as it is hard to locate these days, but is set up nicely
and easy to follow. It basically takes you through periodizations -
acclimation, strength-endurance, power-endurance, etc. and then onto
maintenance.
The most specific thing, I have personally found, about weight training over
the years (for triathlons, running and just general working out) is that YOU
have to find what works for YOU. Someone elses program may not be the best.
Experiment. And don't forget the diet and aerobic work. Weights, often times,
especially for triathletes will go unoticed to the eye (i.e., looking more
ripped per se) but will translate into stronger muscles used in swim/bike/run
and will definitely help you in recovery and prevention of injuries.
I won't try to tell you how to train, etc. because I am not a personal trainer
- these have just been my observations.
I think your comment about not lacking strength is correct. Maintaining a
decent pace on the flats requires the ability to sustain high power outputs
for a long period of time, i.e., you need a high lactate threshold. Some
call this *muscular endurance*. I wouldn't confuse this with the muscular
strength like you need on hills. You can find lots of info about this type
of training, partuclarly in Joe Friel's Training Bible for Cyclists. It
usually involves some sort of tempo rides, e.g., 10 min intervals at 85%
HR.
I 'm quite the opposite of you; I find very comfortable settling in on the
aerobars and pushing the pace. On the hills though, I get dropped by
everyone. Maybe you could gove me some advice . . .
